Talk:List of Challenge of the GoBots episodes/story order

At this time, the only three episodes that I'm concerned about are "Lost on GoBotron" going between the two mini-series (as it really, even if fortuitously, feels like a soft introduction of the planet itself to the audience, what with the Guardians' and humans' behavior, and A.J.'s asking about the planet's shape--practically on the audience's behalf--when the origin of its shape was revealed in the GoBotron Saga), "Doppelganger" going sometime before "Trident's Triple Threat" (early enough to have its treating Small Foot as lacking experience in dealing with the Renegades to make enough sense), and leaving "The GoBots That Time Forgot" to come after all five of the Secret Riders episodes have ended, coming right before "Mission: GoBotron" (since Dart, Ace, and Gunnyr are formally introduced as prominent guest stars and remain prominent in "Mission: GoBotron", while all of the Secret Riders themselves are completely absent from and ignored by "Mission: GoBotron", having faded completely into the background by the time of "The Secret of Halley's Comet"). --Sabrblade (talk) 15:04, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

I think it's becoming apparent that although the "GoBotron Saga" is chronologically earlier, it can't honestly have been written and produced with the intent that it air first, or be the audience's first exposure to a lot of these concepts - I think it must have been made with a view toward re-runs of the series. Hence, other early episodes have these general functions, like "Nova Beam" being a "soft introduction" to Pincher, or "Lost on GoBotron" being the same for GoBotron itself, because you're right, it absolutely is. But far as I view it, these all fall under the "meta-narrative" umbrella of exploiting things to "create" a story flow that wasn't there, good for a viewing experience but not necessary for just keeping events in the right order to write about them. - Chris McFeely (talk) 15:58, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

Then why move any of the episodes around at all if not to help things make sense? Like, if one argues that moving the three episodes I mentioned would be "creating meta-narrative", how is that not also the case for moving the likes of the GoBotron Saga, "Nova Beam", "Genius and Son", "Cy-Kill's Cataclysmic Trap", the five Secret Riders episodes, etc.? --Sabrblade (talk) 16:09, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

Because those are about fixing what few genuinely impossible continuity errors its possible to fix. - Chris McFeely (talk) 16:17, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

Yet, like with "Genius and Son" being Scratch's first assignment, "Doppelganger" is explicit in Small Foot lacking much experience with the Renegades. Both episodes present themselves as being set early in those two Guardians' respective careers.

"Mission: GoBotron" depicts Dart and Ace as prominent as their were in their debut episode, which is much more than what can be said of the Secret Riders in "Terror in Atlantis", "Et tu, Cy-Kill", and especially "The Secret of Halley's Comet". And besides, putting "The GoBots The Time Forgot" that late in the series keeps it closer to its original broadcast placement, and isn't leaving broadcast order alone as best as possible one of the goals of this list?

And while it isn't explicit that "Lost of GoBotron" comes before the GoBotron Saga (it did air before it, though), the behaviors of the characters in that episode strongly imply it as much as Scooter's behavior in the GoBotron Saga implies that saga being the first chronological appearance of Roguestar. And no matter where that saga goes, it still has to be assumed that Cy-Kill was captured offscreen prior to its events since Cy-Kill was never captured in the first mini-series.

Additionally, A.J.'s expositional inquiry about the planet's shape is definitely out of place anywhere other than before the GoBotron Saga, just as much as Nick's unfamiliarity with Pincher in "Nova Beam" is out of place anywhere other than before almost all episodes with Pincher in them (I say "almost" since the GoBotron Saga coming before "Nova Beam" does not pose a conflict since neither Nick nor any of the humans ever see or meet Pincher in that saga). --Sabrblade (talk) 17:13, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

I'm not married to "Doppelganger" or "Time Forgot," but I don't see the point in moving them. But I'm not budging on "The GoBotron Saga" going first. Perhaps some other editors can offer their thoughts, I'm not the final arbiter of this or anything. - Chris McFeely (talk) 17:27, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

I'm sticking with my previous statement: Airing Order minus Impossibilities. That's all. Small Foot's "inexperience" is relative. Scratch's "first assignment" is not. I can't speak to the Secret Riders-era episodes because I haven't reviewed them yet. I have seen "Lost on GoBotron", though, and there's nothing explicit there that requires it to be between the two mini-series. Yes, Nick and A.J. sure are eager to see GoBotron, but they really just sound like dumb 80's cartoon kids, or Sherman asking questions of Mr. Peabody. Nobody says "This is our first time on GoBotron!", which is the only reason we should be rearranging episodes: Clear, unambiguous statements that create an impossibility with the airing order. The GoBotron Saga has those, with Pincher's creation and the introduction of the Power Suits, even if Roguestar's "debut" is ambiguous. --Xaaron (talk) 17:47, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

My opinion is that we either use airing order (which is incoherent) or the officially presented viewing order. Anything else is beyond our purview. (And, yes, I realize that the people who came up with that order are active here.)--Khajidha (talk) 17:52, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

Changing Order

Further to conversation at User_talk:Convoyer I strongly feel that any edits to this page need to be discussed and reach consensus before changes due to the potentially huge number of knock-on changes they could have to other pages. I have protected this page for 24 hours in order for Convoyer to give solid, coherent reason for changes before a decision is made, and to stop a pointless edit war. My case is that: -

• The order before today adequately explained the reasons for Scratch and Snoop appearing where they do.
• General Orlando discovering that the Guardians can be helpful has no bearing on any other episodes due to the Guardians immediately having an established alliance with human authorities in the post-Battle for GoBotron episodes whichever episode order is used.
• The production code is irrelevant as we do not know enough to know at which stage they were assigned to episodes.

Beyond this is Convoyer has a cogent reason for moving the episode I cannot see it and am hoping another admin will help iron this out. This has not been helped by Convoyer's aggressive language, leaps of logic, inability to tell two different users apart and confusing characters. I am hoping some consensus can be built over the next 24 hours by a few users weighing in as my discussions with Convoyer have reached an impasse where I can't see his/her point and he/she cannot explain it. Carry-All (talk) 21:26, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

Having rewatched "Trident's Triple Threat" this morning to double-check I'm even more sceptical about this somehow being the point the Guardians "prove" themselves to the humans. They're well-known enough to be given the job of guarding the disruptor and for General Newcastle to trust them with finding it again after Trident and the Renegades take it. No-one apart from General Orlando doubts them at any point, and his whole character is clearly "comedy pompous jerk". What is vague is what organisation Orlando works for; Newcastle is the only UNECOM general shown at any other time. Orlando has odd circular flashes on his arms (occasionally, though they disappear for half the shots he's in), refers to "his" security troops being able to stop the Renegades during the heist and takes a lot of backchat from Matt, all of which point to him being from outside of UNECOM. Either way what good allies the Guardians make is a lesson taught to Orlando and Orlando alone, with every other human seeming to have no problem with them beyond the low-level irritability Newcastle has any time something goes wrong. One random jackass gets taught a lesson about trusting the Guardians and that's it, nowhere near enough to move the episode IMO.

There is a huge gap in any order from the mini-series to the regular series, during which UNECOM are founded and become close allies with the Guardians, GoBots become public knowledge (allowing for the occasional moment of humans being surprised for comedic or plot reasons, a la Transformers) and - depending on preference - either the rest of the Renegades escape Guardian custody or Cy-Kill is captured. There's no set-up for any of these elements, things just change between episodes 5 and 6 regardless of what you choose to watch on episode 6, and it's sadly grasping at straws trying to find a transition episode. In both "Cy-Kill's Escape" and "Time Wars" the Guardians are immediately trusted allies of UNECOM and thus humanity, and trying to find a stepping stone in between is impossible and borders on fanon. Carry-All (talk) 12:07, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

Permanently protecting page

On further thought and not wishing to pick over the bones, it makes sense if this page is protected to avoid single-issue/drive-by edits. It is unfortunate as it requires a degree of personal opinion, which is not a very Wiki thing, but needs to exist for in-universe entries to not be a mess of qualifiers and notes. IMHO: -

• This page is well-reasoned, logical and as water-tight as it can be for a series with such poor continuity.
• Has been arrived at by consensus by several experienced Wiki admins.
• Stands up as well as possible for the 100+ COTG bios and other pages.
• Would require edits to be made to possibly hundreds of other articles if changed.

As such I feel a very, very strong case would be required to modify it, and that any requests to change the order should be debated on the talk page and reach some sort of consensus before being implemented on the article itself. Carry-All (talk) 15:45, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

People. Everyone who is reading this, you must know that Carry-All is a local king, vandal and antisocial troll. He know very few of this show and probably didn't even watch half of it. He blocked this page NOT for some good, not to protect true information, not to conduct any constructive dialogues with you and identify consensus. He did this because he considers all this wiki his personal property and protects it as a guard dog. He WILL NOT let any of you make any edits, you may not even try. He will roll back all your work, politely ask for an explanations, after which he will say that you did not do this and invite you to explain on some more page, and then more. In November I became a character of such a comedy when my constructive work was deleted up to the last symbols and I was asked 5 times to explain myself. After I did it again and again, I was still treated like I explained totally nothing and still everything was at starting zero point. People, you will not make any edits here, everything will be reverted. Because this wiki has a local king - the mighty Carry-All the hikki. If this wiki will ever get a real admin, the first he must do is deal away with Carry-All, because nothing can be worse for a wiki project than a vandal in a role of mono-tyrant. – Convoyer (talk) 19:38, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

=)

And if that's a bit flippant, please tell me more of the faultless episode order devised by you and your friend/love pillow. You know, the one where you think General Newcastle and General Orlando are the same character. Carry-All (talk) 21:01, 16 January 2022 (UTC)