User talk:Convoyer

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Hi![edit source]

No slight was meant by my reversion, forgetting to leave a reason was bad form on my part. However, I strongly feel any changes to the story order article should have some sort of consensus or discussion before being made due to the large amount of changes it would potentially have for the biographies of the myriad COTG characters. Crack something open on the talk page and we can hammer something out I'm sure =) Again, I apologise if my actions seem heavy handed. Carry-All (talk) 16:05, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

I explained it 2 or 3 times already. Episode 7 is the biggest problem. It has 3 inconsistencies with other episodes at the same time, which are described in the article itself. And at the same time, it has a production code of a much later episode. It is obvious that it was simply delayed and we should just move it down after episodes which it has discrepancy with. But episode 8 does not need to be moved, I already explained why. I completely agree that the order of the series needs to be rearranged, but at the same time a mistake was initially made when it was decided to move the episodes up only. We have a situation here where obviously the episode should be moved down, relative to 3 key events and according to the prod. code. I explained it several times. Convoyer (talk) 16:14, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
But the extant order already addresses Snoop and Scratch, and production code is irrelevant (cf. GoBotron Saga). I am personally not seeing an overwhelming need to move the episode down. I also do not appreciate your aggressive language such as "vandalism" and " If you don't improve anything, at least do not interfere with others to do so." on what should be a collaborative project. Carry-All (talk) 16:33, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
You shown your attitude to collaborative project by multiplying my work on 0 with no explanation in the first place.
"production code is irrelevant" - it is not THAT relevant but when it shows episode was significantly delayed AND it has 3 inconsistencies with other episodes then it shows much.
"I am personally not seeing an overwhelming need to move the episode down" - and I am not seeing a need to move down episode 8 which shows the very beginning of collaboration between guardians and military forces. Because it begins in 8 and goes on in other episodes. What I did is moved the problematic ep and you reverted everything to move several normal ones to a place of less logic. Convoyer (talk) 17:30, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
Going to point out that it's not Newcastle who they convince in Trident's Triple Threat: it's the General Orlando guy who only shows up in that episode to be the "distrusting officer who learns that the GoBots are there to help." Escargon (talk) 17:38, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
I rechecked it, that's true. It's Orlando who expresses confidence at the end, but anyway he speaks for Earth military and this is kinda beginning of collaboration between humans and guardians. What I am trying to say is this episode can not be moved down because of a black sheep which is obviously ep. 7. Convoyer (talk) 17:56, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
It's been a while since I've seen the episodes and I'm currently dealing with university work so I don't really have time to check, could you please explain to me your reasoning? I had reverted it because of the General Orlando bit, but I do generally get why you're moving it up. I'd like to hear if there's anything else I'm forgetting, as I'm not sure why you're moving Renegade Alliance and Dawn World up with it. Escargon (talk) 18:00, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
Addendum: I have put Trident's episode further up for now, since I do think it's worth considering that it's the first episode to really show the Guardians working with human in a military sense. Escargon (talk) 18:07, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
They work with UNECOM in "Return to GoBotron". It's unclear which branch/country/etc of the military Orlando works for because the script is vague as heck, so we don't know if the Guardians ever work with said organisation ever again. I don't particularly have a problem with either way, I just thought the "story order" for this place was only adjusted to solve continuity impossibilities (basically origin stories happening before broadcast debuts) rather than thematic logic, of which Challenge has basically none. I feel if we start moving too much around it will be opening a real can of worms.
For the record, the story order used on the page was there long before I registered here; the reason the last version is "mine" was, I believe, to fix an incorrect spelling for a writer or somesuch and involved no changes to the order itself, so I would appreciate it Convoyer if you would tone down the accusatory language. I personally do not actually agree with the order in several places, but I respect it as a collaborative work arrived at by consensus from several users. I strongly feel any changes should be the result of an in-depth constructive discussion. Carry-All (talk) 18:24, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
I did it several times already but fine, I'll put it one more time. One cannot move some episodes up without moving some down. What was done before me is - a number of episodes were moved down and mixed only because of attempt to keep ep. 7 on its own place. But it's not on its own place initially, it has late code, it was delayed, it has conflicts with 10, 14, 12. So not 10, 14, 12 must be moved through a bunch of others but it's enough to just move 7 and that's all in that case. I see now you have an edit with keeping 8 on its place but look now what happened to 9 - it got moved down. Because... why? This episode doesn't have any hints about the order but then why does it get moved? Article says "Our version adheres to broadcast order for the most part, only moving the episodes that absolutely have to be moved". And 9 does not. This is the reason why I changed the order exactly this way – moved 7 only, this reduces the number of all other permutations, since it was ep. 7 that was the most problematic. And 8 and 9 are not, they are initially normal. 9 goes right between 8 and 10, right? It does not have plot reasons not to. - Convoyer (talk) 18:26, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
I am sorry, I am simply not comprehending your reasoning. As I say, I do not necessarily personally agree with the current order myself, but I respect it as the consensus of seasoned wiki editors. That does not mean it is set in stone but I feel it can only be changed due to the identification of concrete, resolvable continuity errors. The production codes are irrelevant as we have no context for them and at what stage of the production process they were assigned (again, GoBotron Saga, which has non-sequential codes but was made to be shown in order). Where it was answers the problems with Snoop and Scratch. Whether you go by story order or broadcast order (Cy-Kill's Escape or Time Wars) the Guardians are trusted allies of the Earth military without explanation. I am genuinely seeing no strong reason to change it and think your proposed order is straying into the grounds of personal preference. Remember, the story order is not a recommended viewing order, it is merely a framework to allow the narrative to not have gigantic problems like Pincher being created 20-odd episodes after he debuts. Carry-All (talk) 18:43, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
I do not have personal preference, I watched this as a promise to myself-kid. And seeing it has problems with order I wrote down plot moments and came to conclusion which is almost 100% same with this article, except one thing you struggle not to understand for some reason. I already explained pretty much everything several times in a raw, you had your discussion and arguments without giving yours, after that I am no longer feeling obligation to portray a subordinate and listen "prove it to me" position from someone who did not even create this article and "has been a while since I've seen the episodes and I'm currently dealing with university work so I don't really have time to check". When you have time to watch episodes you are talking of, come to discussion. For now I declare the topic closed, episodes' order stay as the one who watched it pointed out. Further vandalism will result consequences. Thanks for general Orlando correction. See you. - Convoyer (talk) 19:38, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

I didn't say that, that was Escargon, a different user, I last watched the series about a month ago. Your point does not hold up and you are unable to explain it clearly or without recourse to rudeness and bombast. Your arguments for have included misidentifying a character and beyond that stuff that borders on gibberish. Put forward a clear, concise argument for why the episode should be moved please. Carry-All (talk) 20:39, 1 November 2021 (UTC)